Did I miss the place in Crabapple's book where she expresses sympathy with Hamas? Because I don't recall her doing that. I think her view is that civilian suffering in Gaza has been horrendous and is due to bad choices by the Israeli military. Do you disagree? Do you disagree with the Bundists' concerns (or Crabapple's description of them) about the likelihood that establishing a Jewish State in Palestine would lead to bad behavior against and bad outcomes for Palestinians? And what is so crazy about seeing Judaism as a religion and (for some of us) ethnicity within a democratic society? It seems to work pretty well for us here in the US.
Only the most dim-witted, ultra-Stalinist sectarians openly rejoice in the bacchanal of sadism unleashed by Hamas on October 7. It is they and they alone who proclaim that it is the legitimate rights of Palestinians to butcher, rape, mutilate, incinerate and kidnap “Zionists.” One would think that these are crimes that no amount of political interpretation or sociological explanation can directly justify.
So, anyone with an ounce of political sophistication would offer an apologia. The playbook is this: a battered spouse in a long-term abusive relationship lashes out and murders her abuser. Of course, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we don’t condone murder. Far from it. It’s deplorable. But place yourself in the hopeless mindset of the abused defendant. Didn’t she simple mete out rough justice, a justice lamentably made necessary because the system failed her? Wasn’t that really her only recourse? Isn’t society equally to blame for failing to protect her? Isn’t she the victim?
This is the prototypical defense that Crabapple makes. Zionism was a movement of colonial thievery. It swindled the fellahin and ethnically cleansed them to make room for their compatriots. It then occupied their refuges, and penned them into open-air prisons, where it periodically bombs and murders them at will. And it does so, while the international community either casts a blind eye at Israeli abuses, or, worse, directly subsidizes it. The current suffering of the Palestinian Gazans is not a matter of “bad choices” on the part of the Israeli military after the Hamas massacres. It resides rather in the genetic predisposition of criminality at the core of Zionism.
What is remarkable in Crabapple’s perspective and in your question is the stunning lack of agency attributed to the Palestinians. Did they have choices, did they make political wagers or were they pure victims of malevolent forces beyond their control? Do they bear any responsibility for the consequences of their politics?
The political realities that culminated in the establishment of Israel was part of a general process of the elimination of colonialism and the establishment of independent states on its ruins. This could have proceeded along a different course. And still can.
Might the Palestinian Arabs have aligned with the Zionists, as opposed to the fascist powers in the 1930s, in a joint effort to free the region of imperial domination? There were more than a few Zionists on the right and left who would have welcomed that struggle. No, better the satrapy of Nazi Germany than being obliged to accommodate the national rights of the Jews in a binational state or a confederal state. Better to be a slave to fascism, than an equal with the Jews.
Now move forward a few years. What would have happened had the Palestinians accepted partition? No war, no refugees, no occupation, less big power meddling and Palestinian sovereignty over a much larger portion of Mandate Palestine than they will ever obtain in the future. But again, that would have necessitated swallowing the bitter pill of national equality.
So to your question, no, I don’t accept the “Bundist proposition” that the creation and existence of a Jewish state (and, remember, all the Zionists were calling for prior to the 1942 Biltmore program was a homeland, not a state) would lead to bad behavior against and bad outcomes for the Palestinians. They had choices, political agency, and their choices brought political calamity upon themselves, upon the Jews and upon the region.
And between then and now, nothing has been learned.
And as long as there is a left, of which Ms. Crabapple is a proud part, that urges them on the same reckless, irredentist path; who calumniates peace seekers as national traitors, and who demand non-engagement with Israelis, this tragedy will forever replicate itself.
I really don't understand your "agency" comment. People are suffering terribly right now, a lot of them kids. What do you want the people of Gaza to do? Rise up and overthrow Hamas, so they can live the sweet life of Palestinians in the West Bank? Anyway, I've got nothing to say to Hamas, they seem like terrible people. My concern is that my tax money is being used for terrible purposes, which implicates me. When force is used in my name, I want it done with rules and mercy. I don't get the sense that you disagree with that, thank goodness. But what do suggest that people who care about the situation of people living in Gaza do, that's different from what Crabapple (or Mamdani) are doing? You want them to do a lot of throat-clearing criticism of Hamas, so that Israelis will know they're not 'dim-witted ultra-Stalinists'? I mean, as people who criticize Mamdani are constantly saying, there are plenty of Israelis who are very loudly critical of the Netanyahu and company.
Did I miss the place in Crabapple's book where she expresses sympathy with Hamas? Because I don't recall her doing that. I think her view is that civilian suffering in Gaza has been horrendous and is due to bad choices by the Israeli military. Do you disagree? Do you disagree with the Bundists' concerns (or Crabapple's description of them) about the likelihood that establishing a Jewish State in Palestine would lead to bad behavior against and bad outcomes for Palestinians? And what is so crazy about seeing Judaism as a religion and (for some of us) ethnicity within a democratic society? It seems to work pretty well for us here in the US.
Only the most dim-witted, ultra-Stalinist sectarians openly rejoice in the bacchanal of sadism unleashed by Hamas on October 7. It is they and they alone who proclaim that it is the legitimate rights of Palestinians to butcher, rape, mutilate, incinerate and kidnap “Zionists.” One would think that these are crimes that no amount of political interpretation or sociological explanation can directly justify.
So, anyone with an ounce of political sophistication would offer an apologia. The playbook is this: a battered spouse in a long-term abusive relationship lashes out and murders her abuser. Of course, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we don’t condone murder. Far from it. It’s deplorable. But place yourself in the hopeless mindset of the abused defendant. Didn’t she simple mete out rough justice, a justice lamentably made necessary because the system failed her? Wasn’t that really her only recourse? Isn’t society equally to blame for failing to protect her? Isn’t she the victim?
This is the prototypical defense that Crabapple makes. Zionism was a movement of colonial thievery. It swindled the fellahin and ethnically cleansed them to make room for their compatriots. It then occupied their refuges, and penned them into open-air prisons, where it periodically bombs and murders them at will. And it does so, while the international community either casts a blind eye at Israeli abuses, or, worse, directly subsidizes it. The current suffering of the Palestinian Gazans is not a matter of “bad choices” on the part of the Israeli military after the Hamas massacres. It resides rather in the genetic predisposition of criminality at the core of Zionism.
What is remarkable in Crabapple’s perspective and in your question is the stunning lack of agency attributed to the Palestinians. Did they have choices, did they make political wagers or were they pure victims of malevolent forces beyond their control? Do they bear any responsibility for the consequences of their politics?
The political realities that culminated in the establishment of Israel was part of a general process of the elimination of colonialism and the establishment of independent states on its ruins. This could have proceeded along a different course. And still can.
Might the Palestinian Arabs have aligned with the Zionists, as opposed to the fascist powers in the 1930s, in a joint effort to free the region of imperial domination? There were more than a few Zionists on the right and left who would have welcomed that struggle. No, better the satrapy of Nazi Germany than being obliged to accommodate the national rights of the Jews in a binational state or a confederal state. Better to be a slave to fascism, than an equal with the Jews.
Now move forward a few years. What would have happened had the Palestinians accepted partition? No war, no refugees, no occupation, less big power meddling and Palestinian sovereignty over a much larger portion of Mandate Palestine than they will ever obtain in the future. But again, that would have necessitated swallowing the bitter pill of national equality.
So to your question, no, I don’t accept the “Bundist proposition” that the creation and existence of a Jewish state (and, remember, all the Zionists were calling for prior to the 1942 Biltmore program was a homeland, not a state) would lead to bad behavior against and bad outcomes for the Palestinians. They had choices, political agency, and their choices brought political calamity upon themselves, upon the Jews and upon the region.
And between then and now, nothing has been learned.
And as long as there is a left, of which Ms. Crabapple is a proud part, that urges them on the same reckless, irredentist path; who calumniates peace seekers as national traitors, and who demand non-engagement with Israelis, this tragedy will forever replicate itself.
Can you point me to a statement by Crabapple that calumnates peace seekers? Or urges Palestinians not to seek peace?
I really don't understand your "agency" comment. People are suffering terribly right now, a lot of them kids. What do you want the people of Gaza to do? Rise up and overthrow Hamas, so they can live the sweet life of Palestinians in the West Bank? Anyway, I've got nothing to say to Hamas, they seem like terrible people. My concern is that my tax money is being used for terrible purposes, which implicates me. When force is used in my name, I want it done with rules and mercy. I don't get the sense that you disagree with that, thank goodness. But what do suggest that people who care about the situation of people living in Gaza do, that's different from what Crabapple (or Mamdani) are doing? You want them to do a lot of throat-clearing criticism of Hamas, so that Israelis will know they're not 'dim-witted ultra-Stalinists'? I mean, as people who criticize Mamdani are constantly saying, there are plenty of Israelis who are very loudly critical of the Netanyahu and company.